Inner groove distortion example.
IME, inner groove distortion can be caused by many things.
Inner groove distortion example Conscientia Mortis. Clearly limited in frequency, and some distortion too. Inner grooves sound the same no matter where i set the vtf. As the grooves become tighter, the stylus has difficulty tracking the audio signal accurately, leading to distorted sound quality. For example, the AT33PTG/II and AT33SA that have been very favorably mentioned here. Both methods (and others) are valid and have their place but Technics didn't pick their null-points out of a hat, so-to-speak. If this is infact a bad pressing that may be confounding the issue, but there's certainly an inner groove distortion problem on most records I play. Put your palm down, fingers spread out, and trace along them. vm95ml, vm540ml). This doesn't sound like inner groove distortion. The tracing distortion exists on ANY groove, not at “inner” ones. I'm not saying you won't ever notice it, but it will be greatly reduced. John K. Post by wowandflutter123 » 08 Aug 2023 00:05 If the stylus is worn or poorly fitted it may not be able to trace the inner groove modulations faithfully. Vinyls can experience inner-groove distortion towards the middle of the vinyl. However it could also be that you aren't cleaning the records properly before playing them, and the stylus is picking off dust/dirt and so won't be able to track Quick links Please login or register an account Any noticeable inner groove distortion can be many times traced to set up (including skating) --- even with my largest profile ellipticals, IGD is not an issue on a good tonearm / cartridge with good set up. Reply I used to think that inner groove distortion, what I believe you are describing, was just something you had to put up with when spinning vinyl. But I bet you won't. I'm hearing distortion in loud passages on the inner two tracks of each side--the organ interlude and guitar solo on Let It Be, for example. Comparing his various versions of Please Please Me, for example, all have varying degrees of groove damage (even the mono ones), but the damage is always in the right hand channel This is an example of a page. Reactions: Bkkersey93. 25g I’ve included alignment protractor photos for reference. bronze. 4 X . It sounds like a crummy mastering job on the part of the manufacturer of the record. Oct 21, 2020 #1 G'day mate, I don't think you should have any inner groove distortion issues with the AT95E if the set up is good. I have records with alot of I've gone through three turntables and three cartridges in the last year trying to fix sibilance on vocals and inner groove distortion and I seriously thought that this would be the final upgrade that I would need to get rid of this problem, it's not done anything, it's got the exact same distortion as what was on my LP60x. 2) Choose DIN (most common average run-out groove widths) and Stevenson (the alignment that gives lowest distortion at inner grooves) then press Print Arc Template (your default printer settings should be OK) 3) Check the X and Y scales on your printed template with a ruler, (the measures are printed on both axis). Proudly created with Wix. More importantly the calculations you shared are based on IEC standard for inner and outer groove radiuses. As the groove gets smaller in diameter more information is packed into a shorter distance. Especially if it's only happening on some records. I'm betting you are hearing inner groove distortion. The distortion that increases as the stylus passes from the “outer” to the “inner” grooves, is not an “inner groove distortion”, the so-called "inner groove distortion" is the "tracing distortion", non-linear distortion proper fundamentally to the mechanical reproduction of any groove (and not only "inner") of a gramophone record But on some records ( ~10-20% ) I hear annoying inner groove distortion that I never noticed with my previous Grado Gold cartridge. Better styli generate more high frequency mechanical energy (vibration) — and it goes right into the tonearm. If you have too much anti-skate where the stylus isn't skating, this means the outer wall of the groove is pushing the stylus in that direction. For examples of sibilant distortion, listen to Peter Gabriel on vinyl. Since the groove is moving more slowly at the inside, the curves are tighter and harder for the stylus to You have discovered the dreaded IGD (Inner Groove Distortion). Πες την Αλήθεια 3. cafe latte vinyl engineer Posts: 15637 Joined: 11 Oct 2009 04:27 Location: Cattle property near Ravenshoe Qld Australia. 2 to my local hifi shop . Your stylus isn't aligned with the groove as well as on the outer grooves, and there is less 'data' on the inner grooves, so with a particular If you want to minimize inner-groove distortion, I would highly recommend the Audio Technica AT440MLa. Quick links Please login or login or Hello, the Rega Carbon has a conical stylus and conicals aren't good for limiting inner groove distortion which is what you are most probably hearing when you say lack of definition. . It's a result of the stylus not tracking the record well in the inner The distortion that increases as the stylus passes from the “outer” to the “inner” grooves, is not an “inner groove distortion”, the so-called "inner groove distortion" is the "tracing distortion", non-linear distortion proper fundamentally to the mechanical reproduction of any groove (and not only "inner") of a gramophone record (like reducing inner groove distortion or sibliance for example) Discussion Share Add a Comment. Page 2 of 2 < Prev 1 2. As the stylus approaches the innermost section of the record, sound quality may deteriorate due to various factors. It can also occur earlier on the record, and can then be caused by a bad pressing. It's especially bad on the Get Back disc but I hear it on the 2021 remix disc as well if I'm paying attention. 7, . Inner Groove Distortion - Page 2 Skip to main content It's easy to press an LP that way. 5g and the arm and setup alignment are all according to spec. You just don't want it to skate the stylus toward the inner wall. ©2020 by Inner Groove Distortion. This can cause the sound to become distorted, with a loss of high frequencies and a muddy sound. Inner Groove Distortion is inherent to vinyl records. Inner-groove distortion is an audible deterioration in sound quality that sometimes occurs when playing tracks close to the end of each side. I also own the cd and this doesn't happen at all. Quick links Please login or register an account The MFSL LP is the best sounding version I've ever listened to, but I wish my copy was dead quiet. Chris Cafe latte, Dec 28, 2024 #93. I can't recall off the top of my head any specific examples, but some LPs have been released that way but as a novelty. bottom of page This inner groove distortion is haunting my dreams now. And in the same groove, on the shape of the stylus' surface in contact with the groove. Baerwald (Lofgren A) aims to equalize distortion at inner groove, outer groove and the peak between null points. Inner groove distortion has a lot to do with the way the music is compressed on vinyl records. I have my original copy, bought when first released, and it does indeed have some groove damage. I wouldn't worry about using a medium compliance cartridge in your arm. Usually on the inside half-ish of the album, it appears as a trebly/cracking distortion in the left channel mostly. 5% less) since the null is around 66mm. This distortion manifests as sibilance (excessive To understand inner groove distortion, you have to consider the outer grooves. But 2. Sterling1 said: Nothing! As I listened on, I kept sitting there waiting to detect signs of distortion. I had this problem with the Shure M97xe and when I went and changed it to the Audio Technice AT 440 MLa and got it all aligned and everything the inner groove distortion disappeared. Newer turntables are often designed to reduce inner Re: Inner Groove distortion - Can it ever be TOTallY elimina Post by itchmay » 16 Oct 2012 07:49 Mike is a nice guy, but this is an example of garbage in, garbage out. Same thing on this side No distortion! To make a long story short, I'm now on the "C" side of the 2 LP Depeche Mode album and still no signs of distortion. As well, some cartridges just don't seem to perform very well at the 'inner grooves' in terms of inner groove distortion, the Ortofon 2M Red being an example, in my personal observation. It happens when the grooves on the record are too close to eachother at the end of side A/B. I never got out of playing vinyl, but it was only in the '90s that I started to pay attention to actual TT setup, so for many years I was playing my vinyl collection on cr*p old equipment, with no One example is Traveling Wilbury's - Volume 1: In my favourite song, "Not Alone Any More", Roy's voice distorts when he sings the loud words ("NOOOT alone, you're NOOOT alone). If the arm isn't equipped to deal with higher levels of vibration, distortion happens. 6, and . Inner groove distortion (IGD) is a type of distortion that occurs when the stylus reaches the inner grooves of a vinyl record. The grooves at the center are physically compressed, so there’s phase distortion, and modulation distortion is a problem as well because the velocity is much lower towards the center. This occurs on various lps, even new ones. You can basically eliminate inner groove distortion using an exotic-shape stylus (MicroLine, shibata, line contact, Jico IGD is mistracking, the needle will loose contact with the outer groove wall. The finer the stylus, the less inner groove and sibilant distortion, assuming the cartridge is properly aligned. I recently upgraded my cart to a DL-103R and the inner groove distortion An example is a grado black I had, which refused to align well on a cheap pioneer, and always suffered from inner groove distortion, but when I put it on an SME arm, it worked great. What does inner groove distortion even sound like? What you're getting right now from your 2M Red. That way it reduces distortion. May 20, 2015 #4 Instead of overpriced I would instead say the 440MLa is a steal, a real true bargain of the few there are among cartridges. BTW, one of my favorite old LPs is Asylum Choir II, with Marc Benno and Leon Russell. ) How loud the inner last band on the record is cut has a lot to do with inner groove distortion. gusten Addicted Member. KeninDC, Jul 17, 2018 #10. I'm not satisfied that my cart cannot handle what I'm playing into it -- I have a Rega Elys 2 on an RB300 arm on a Rega P3. Offers excellent tracking ability, minimal distortion, and extended frequency response. Details; Discussions; Posts; This discussion; This does matter and is why for example 45 sounds better than 33. 25g Anti-Skate 1. 7 elliptical in the OP's setup. Classical music - due to the varying levels of modulation (loudness) - is the biggest challenge against groove distortion and applying anti skate. It just depends on your price point and what you're willing to put up with sound wise. back when i had one before, i had a vintage system with a limited bandwidth. Ψυχοτρόπος Διακόσμηση 2. Could be the way the diamond is cut does not like your stevenson alignment. Because the stylus is incapable of tracing ANY groove exactly as the cutting chisel does. dconsmack, Mar 15, 2021 #54. This is a comparision of how the stylus shape can affect the sound quality as you get towards the inside of the record. However, I'm hearing outer-groove distortion at the beginning of some records - mostly old ones I've had for many years. Some records and some songs are much more prone to this than others, and it 1. The "wavelength" of the modulations on the groove is much shorter in the inner grooves for a given frequency then it is in the outer grooves. Now it sounds much better! Most of the inner groove distortion is gone . For example, the SPU GM Mkii on 60's Columbia 6-eye and 2-eye Jazz pressings are incredibly detailed, as just one example. Question about Inner Groove Distortion (especially on shorter records) Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BryanA-HTX, Jan 17, 2019. bottom of page a phenomenon known as inner-groove distortion (also referred to as end-of-side distortion. I'm very confidant it isn't my setup. S. You are quite correct in that a lot of the distortion many hear on the inner grooves of used records is indeed due to prior damage. Conversely, inner groove distortion happens because the needle passes less distance in the same amount of time = less information. bottom of page It's just an example of absolute hopping on the vinyl bandwagon, with profits in mind and with no regards for quality control because most fans don't really care about it (no offense) and only listen to them on Crosleys. Inner groove distortion is a function of the stylus size and groove curvature. In particular the last 10 seconds or so - I'm very familiar with this sound when I used to use an AT120e as my cart, as it was not the best tracker in the inner groove. No setup could play that frisbee without distortion. Cutter Overload: Happens when attempting to cut too loud or too dynamic signals into the lacquer. If you see oscillation, groove hopping, or inability to track small warps, you have a problem. 8u has an area of 11. Not sure how old your cartridge is, could be the suspension is worn and you need a new cartridge, or in your case a stylus replacement. Now, close your fingers and try to trace them Hard, if not impossible. Inner groove distortion may still be a problem on certain records, whereas others may play distortion free. My point was to give an example of the ideal way to preserve your records, not the only way. This often happens on poor quality pressing. Yes, I believe it is IGD, but just a bit (enough to be noticeable but not really over-the-top distorted). now, with a more revealing system i can hear these subtleties. The closer you get to the center, the shorter the groove is. Example of Inner groove distortion is a common challenge that plagues vinyl records, especially those with longer playing times or dense musical content. The inches per second (ips) at the inner grooves is less than half the ips at the outer groove. if there was inner groove distortion, i may not have heard it. It´s a good idea I think to avoid this, both for the ears and the record. But what causes it? It's well worth the extra money to spend on a good stylus to avoid the headache that is inner groove distortion. At the same time if the needle is prone to 'pinch-effect', the distortion will get worse, as I see it. Try a new stylus. I am really struggling with inner groove distortion in my setup. Easy. Also check to see if the cart is perpendicular to the record. On my double albums, this is not the case. more amplitude) it is harder to track and can cause more distortion. What's unusual about this one is it's not just the innermost tracks; for example, "On a Sunday," the second to last track on side 1, has a fairly pronounced problem with sibilant vocals. Even a high compliance one. However, as I posted in a previous thread, I am experiencing inner groove distortion--but only on a brand new Inner groove distortion is very common. Inner Groove Distortion is a fairly common problem, but if you are just noticing this recently, that suggests that something else may be going on. millercarbon. One blatant example, though, is "The long and winding road" on an old copy of The Beatles "blue album" that I have. 00:00 / 08:48. I have played with ALL of the adjustments and none made one iota with regards to the distortion. Its pretty new, probably still under 30 hours of use, and I've been getting distortion 's''s in vocals, especially on the inner side of the record. I finally brought inner groove distortion under control by building a passive equalizer. (Check your cartridge manual for the proper weig One of the most noticeable traits of inner groove distortion is that words with the letter "S" become distorted. 34, and 2*11. (Note: it’s more noticeable on heavier records like this where there is a lot of guitar distortion and loud drums, but still sort of present on other softer music too). Microline styli reach deeper into the groove and pick up more information in the more difficult to track inner grooves. I just ordered a proper Technics headshell, that will get here Friday and hopefully the lighter piece solves the problem! Last edited: Apr 8, 2015. It happens at the end Quick links Please login or register an account The Stevenson alignment was designed to minimize inner groove distortion. Best cartridge you've never heard of: the Audio-Technica AT33PTG/II » Inner groove distortion is a function of the stylus size and groove curvature. Unlike posts, which are displayed on your blog’s front page in the order they’re published, pages are better suited for more timeless content that you want to be easily accessible, like your About or Contact information. In this article, we will explore what inner groove distortion is, the causes behind it Inner Groove Distortion is an indie artist based in Athens, focusing in spoken word. If it does it on all LPs, then as Steve says, it is inner groove DISTORTION, which may be cured by more careful attention to cartridge alignment. Inner groove distortion is just something that's inherent to records. 2. But what is it, and How do you fix it? Unfortunately, there's no way to get rid of it entirely, but in This is sometimes referred to as "inner groove distortion" which is often most audible in the higher frequencies. This is sometimes referred to as "inner groove distortion" which is often most audible in the higher frequencies. The circumference of each groove decreases as you get closer to the end of the record. I hear it on old and new records. Since everything until that point is good, I It doesn't sound BAD, but probably as good as it will get, after seeing this example. And inner groove distortion is not baked into the record. This is called Inner Groove Distortio In the meantime, hopefully you can get your Ortofon to sound better. Its why Any input from the experts here would be greatly appreciated, as I've got what I consider subpar performance in the area of inner groove distortion. Sort by: Best Provides even better groove contact and detail retrieval than standard elliptical styli. If anyone has similar examples (or math) for 4x, 3x, and 2x7 elliptical and . Santa You basically listen for for added distortion or break-up in the sound, typically on the last track of a side and especially when cut close to the label (with a narrow runout/deadwax The so-called "inner groove distortion" is the "TRACING DISTORTION" proper fundamentally to the mechanical reproduction of ANY groove (and not only "inner") of In this article, we will explore what inner groove distortion is, the causes behind it, how to identify its effects, and practical measures to minimize its impact for an improved vinyl listening experience. I can't find the link, but there was an early phonograph design where constant linear velocity was maintained. The last great example I can think of is Costello's Armed Forces, where you're pretty much totally unprepared for 'Goon Squad' to leap out and grab you at the . If it's a particularly So, it's seems that there are a lot of threads are popping up about people having a problem with inner groove distortion. Thread Status: It's refreshing, honestly (Alcest is an example here - their domestic vinyl issue isn't that great, but the Chinese one is spectacular, relatively speaking) But seriously, it depends on your tolerance level for distortion. But that's just bad ©2020 by Inner Groove Distortion. ArneW and Vinyljunkie22 like this. sekine New Member. I am not sure how I didn't notice the bent head-shell. 34 is 22. This increasingly smaller space means that the music has to be compressed more compactly later on in the album. To be fair, my only reference point for the P25 WAS when it had the Ortofon fitted, and through some nice components - so to go from that to my it's been a while and i'm thinking about trying a denon dl103 or dl103r again. Mistracking is also common at the innermost part of each side where the modulations are packed together tighter than at the outer edge (for more information on inner groove distortion, also know as “the pinching effect”, see this helpful Hydrogen Audio thread). When inner and outer groove radiuses change the null points change too. With a . You want skating. Spread the music out over two records: If a record is too long, it is more likely to exhibit inner groove distortion. The so-called "inner groove distortion" is the "TRACING DISTORTION" proper fundamentally to the mechanical reproduction of ANY groove (and not only "inner") of gramophone record, and by ANY stylus, due to the difference between the shapes of the cutter chisel and the stylus. Closer to the edge = more distance covered in each rotation = more audio information. 7 inches. So if the inner groove is cut loud (i. I originally had an Ortofon 2m Red on my Denon DP-72L and made sure that it was perfectly setup, however I was consistently getting some bad IGD. Example of The more friction in the groove (increased VTF) results in needing more anti skate. Blue Sky is the last track on side 3 and if somethings not right you'll hit inner groove distortion at the half way point in the song. The ones on the outside of the record contain the first song. Once you do that, you will virtually eliminate inner groove distorion, and if you can't get the test The so-called "inner groove distortion" is the "TRACING DISTORTION" proper fundamentally to the mechanical reproduction of ANY groove (and not only "inner") of gramophone record, and by ANY stylus, due to the difference between the shapes of the cutter chisel and the stylus. For example, in the case of the 7 mil conical unit, a circle of D 3. Back in the 1970's IGD was a problem that had been common in the past, but for the most part, had largely been resolved with the exception cheap low quality equipment. One of it's characteristics is that it's supposed to greatly reduce inner-groove distortion. HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident. I couldn't find a schematic for your equalizer and what they say about it appears to indicate Question Inner groove distortion. IME, on hot pressings with music cut close to the label, the Technics method yields lower distortion. Also be aware that some records are much worse in this regard than others, depending on how they were pressed, and pre-owned records can occasionally be problematic if I took my Pro-ject 1. 3% less) since the null is around 66mm. INNER GROOVE DISTORTION. Spectemur Agendo. To accurately reproduce a 10K signal the How loud the inner last band on the record is cut has a lot to do with inner groove distortion. As an example, Bow Wow Wow's "Louis Quartoze" would get a little distorted at its busiest with my 2M Blue, but the 2M Bronze played Inner Groove Distortion thoughts. Phil Thien, Dec 28, 2024 #94. So I am thinking the distortion I am hearing is from the pressing and nothing to do with my cartridge. Apr 8, 2015 Inner Groove Distortion- Turntable problem? Thread starter 80sonvinyl; Start date Nov 13, 2020; Tags Let me use my own experience as an example. The grey stuff is light reflection because of the angle, not actual grease or damage. I find this gives me the cleanest sound overall throughout the record. But ofcourse it can also happen because the stylus is worn out or the turntable isn't set up properly. What are some of the best album cover variations (different takes on original covers) example : Sibilant distortion can be caused by many things. Thread starter Cammy511; Start date Feb 15, 2011; Cammy511 Active Member. So far, the AT231LP handles the inner groove and the "s" sounds on vocals well, and MG does not. Inner groove distortion? It might be worse toward the end of the record, but can’t tell if that’s consistent. This is because the grooves are closer together at the inner grooves, which means that the stylus has less time to track them. While the Stevenson has about the same distortion at 60mm, it's nearly at 1% between the nulls and at the outer groove. Maybe there is a better stylus for your cartridge if the manufacturer used the same body on several models. It's not unusual though to have a hip hop vinyl come back with a little distortion here and there in this competitive world. The principal suspects, then, would be: Ortofon 2M Bronze comes to mind as a guaranteed example of ample tracking Ever wondered what is IGD: inner groove distortion or HTE: horizontal AKA linear tracking error? This is the right video! We will understand how these issues The best thing I can recommend to get rid of inner groove distortion is to get a Hi Fi News and Record Review test record, and use the anti-skating tracks on side two to find the optimal combination of tracking force and anti-skate setting. Help me out on this I thought inner groove distortion was mostly a product of the effects of a pivot turntable as it reaches the inner grooves a stylus is at it's most misaligned point in an arch, and therefore your inner grooves are most Inner groove distortion is the most general sign of anti-skate error, but sibilance can be as well: Left channel distortion: too much anti-skate (For example, those new to adjustable tables and who've never had VTA adjustment before often adjust VTA but don't realize when you change it you also need to adjust VTF in most cases. Two things a finer diamond may solve some of the distortion but also lower moving In this article, we will explore the causes of inner groove distortion and delve into effective mastering techniques to minimize this issue, ensuring a superior listening experience for vinyl enthusiasts. The biggest problem they found was the head-shell was bent 5 degrees down . I am sure a cartridge like the 2M Ortofon Red is capable of reading the information on the inner grooves if it is in good condition. But Baerwald will be worse on those outliers cut close to the label, so that is the reason to use Stevenson, you sacrifice a little Inner-groove distortion is non-existent. Upgrade your turntable: If you have a very old or inexpensive turntable, it may be worth upgrading to a newer model. When the stylus gets worn it can no longer read the inner grooves effectively. Unfortunately, some pressings have inner groove distortion cut right into the groove for you. Slight distortion on last track, and about midway through a 45. If the diameter of a record is 12 inches, the circumference is approximately 37. bottom of page ©2020 by Inner Groove Distortion. Location: New England. If the diameter of a Inner groove distortion, often referred to as end-of-side distortion, occurs when the needle nears the center of the record. It sounds like groove wear on an old record. Why is that? Well, consider this. Inner groove distortion caused by slightly bent stylus? Hi, I recently upgraded my headphones and now I hear terrible IGD on louder records (for example Blackwater Park by Opeth sounds terribly grainy and plinky on the top end, while it's almost unnoticable on quieter records). I believe that the correct overhang 'shortcut' value for the Pioneer turntables headshell is 49 mm measured from the rubber washer on the headshell to the stylus tip. from various reviews, it seems that nagaoka cartridges are the kings of handling the inner On an otherwise perfect record, this can be IGD (Inner groove distortion) and is an issue of geometry. Since the groove is moving more slowly at the inside, the curves are tighter and harder for the stylus to trace at high frequencies. It's an audible distortion that comes closer to the end of a record. When it comes to inner groove distortion I can compare between audio technica AT-740, VM-95ML, Ortofon Vinylmaster red and Shure with Jico stylus. Its why 30ips tape is better than 15. The counter weight on the end of your tonearm is used to apply the correct amount of pressure in agreement with the manufacturer’s recommendations. For an inexpensive Japanese player like the akai I think the natural match is an inexpensive Japanese cart like an Audio Technica. Ironically also it Some recommend a 2mm spacer with the above combination, while others do not. 5. Kind of like a tape deck that starts out at 15 ips and slows down to 3-3/4 ips at the end of the tape. And if inner groove distortion is a problem, try using the Stevenson alignment, which minimizes it. For example, if you were to take the grooves right in the middle of the record where the diameter is about six inches and you stretch them A simple LP60x with a fat conical stylus will have much more trouble at the inner grooves as a decent cardridge with a microline stylus (ex. But to a variable degree depending, at equal frequency, on the radius of the groove. Santa would sound like "shanta" for example. Joined Oct 21, 2020 Messages 9 Reaction score 2 Points 28 Age 36 Location UK. I have around 45, mostly used records and I'd confidently say that about 15 (a third) have noticeable distortion as they get nearer the inner grooves I've been collecting and playing records for over 50 years. For example a Shure M-95 HE with an original natural diamond HE tip will track difficult inner grooves cleanly. In my experience, a high quality turntable & tonearm with a properly aligned cartridge will not exhibit bad inner groove distortion If the reason for two records is to avoid inner groove distortion, the records would keep the tracks at the usual width and use only the outer half of the groove area. I've played records with sibilant distortion a lot of times over and it never seemed to damaged the grooves though. Best For: Audiophiles seeking the highest quality Understanding Inner Groove Distortion Inner groove distortion, often referred to as end-of-side distortion, occurs when the needle nears the center of the record. For example, I like Grado Prestige cartridges, but with my last Blue1 I manage to play only 150 LPs before IGD Replacing the stylus with a more advanced one (for example, conical to Shibata) can cause inner groove distortion. Many/most classical recordings reach a crescendo at the end where this may be more important. Baerwald is almost 0 at the inner groove, but it's around 0. My tracking force is set to the recommended 1. Re: Inner Groove distortion - Can it ever be TOTallY elimina. I have another video on my youtube channel comparing the 95E to the 95ML on the first track of the album where you can hear more tonal differences rather than inner groove distortion. As the groove gets smaller in diameter more information is I've always believed that 'most' inner groove distortion results from incorrect cartridge overhang/ alignment, however there are 'other' apparent causes as well. That would be in a severe case of IGD, mind you. So rather then following the groove the needle will ride up on the inner groove wall. As the grooves become tighter, the stylus has difficulty tracking the audio signal accurately, leading to The inner grooves are more demanding for the cartridge on high frequency sounds. A lower cost bonded stylus assembly has a higher moving mass and not be able to respond fast enough, and could lose contact with the groove walls As others have recommended, upgrading to an elliptical stylus, such as the LP Gear CFN3600LE, will reduce inner groove distortion (IGD). Inner Groove Distortion and Sibilance. Caused usually as some have said by alignment, but can also be seen with a conical stylus in cases and also if the record is used and has been played with an old nail. 8% between the nulls and at the outer groove. If it's a particularly The more friction in the groove (increased VTF) results in needing more anti skate. Using the same example, Aphex Twin "Syro" is approximately 60-minutes and could have been apportioned to 2 LP's. That's the difference between inner and outer grooves, so an album with a really hot top end is going to have more inner groove distortion. ETI_5000 Super Member. top of page. 68uf^2. Good luck. It shouldn't be making your records sound like crap from front to back. Inner Grove Distortion - Example. As an example, the recent beatles releases were corrected specifically for the effects of inner groove distortion by applying eq to the mid-range (the area of sound most affected by it). The only mastering engineer who You're not going to eliminate inner groove distortion with an elliptical cart. When I upgraded my own LP60 with this stylus it did achieve an immediately noticeable reduction in At the example the end of the boheme's first act ("mi chiamano mimì", or the Carmen's first solo in the first act. My AT95E's show no inner groove distortion at all. They spent nearly an hour adjusting everything. Since turntables rotate at a fixed speed, the amount of audio information is a function of the arc length of the groove. Now, let's pretend half of those grooves aren't there, the diameter of the record Its specifications and price give the expectations for very insignificant Inner Groove Distortion, if any! Much less when it is mounted on the tonearm it was designed for, with "perfect" setup signified with your turntable. I have a denon dp 300f turntable with an ortofon blue cartridge. It is the thing I hate most about vinyl. It's also very obvious. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Casey737, Jul 2, 2013. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by phonodroid, Apr 8, Stylus shapes and their relation to tracking an inner groove are a topic of geometry mainly. com. But it increases from the outer to the inner grooves. Lower modulation cuttings play more cleanly on this, and the conicals, especially in higher frequencies. Πρόγραμμα IME, inner groove distortion can be caused by many things. So they bent it back straight. The closer to the inner grooves the stylus tracks the more information it has to read per inch of travel. I doubt it will ever be 100% free of inner groove distortion but it shouldn't be as bad as you've described. I talked about this in another thread concerning inner groove distortion, but the same principle applies to all but the most heinous inner groove damage as well. I have two examples of how funny the patterns can look like at some records: A DJ Record with heavy bass and electronic samples. Nullius In Verba by Inner Groove Distortion, released 20 March 2020 1. 5 conical shapes, please share them. As for diagnosis, if your record sounds fine until the arm gets to the inner grooves, where it then develops distortion, you probably have an IGD problem. That aside, I think everyone here agrees that inner groove high frequency drop has many causes, including compensation at mastering Sounds like you’re starting to get more sensitive to inner groove distortion, as the record groove moves toward the centre of the record the groove wall angle becomes more and more shallow, as this happens it gets harder for the stylus to fit into and track the groove properly leading to higher distortion, I think a new stylus might help Alleviate this distortion you’re hearing but if you Most elliptical tips will also produce IGD but at a lower level. Mr. Click the Edit link to make changes to this page or add Inner groove distortion Ortofon 2m blue vs. Archtop For example, my Technics manual suggests 2. 7 stylus I would pretty much expect some inner groove, and sibilance, distortion. The only way to get rid of it is to cut at lower levels, or at 45 RPM, which is the reason for those 45 RPM albums! Mr. One of the most noticeable traits of inner groove distortion is that words with the letter "S" become distorted. I'm using it right now and, for the most part, that's what it does. This causes an increase in distortion, called inner-groove distortion (IGD). 0 is better. A LP60 will have terrible inner groove distortion or even jumps out of the groove if the high frequencies and bass (or overall volume) isn't turn down a lot. The difference you are hearing in the low distortion high frequency tracking ability of inner grooves has a lot to do with your AT440MLa's "micro linear" stylus, vs the 95E's . If you want to minimize inner-groove distortion, I would highly recommend the Audio Technica AT440MLa. Before I knew it, it was at the lead-out groove and no distortion! I flipped over the the "B" side. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by TheAlphaFlamingo, Mar 10, 2021. If most of the records you play aren't cut that close to the label, then Baerwald with IEC inner groove setting has lower distortion for the inner grooves (typically 0. e. If possible, try to find a version of the album that is spread out over two records. No surprise, the jico is of course best, not far behind are the audio technicas, then the vinyl master red which is a bit better than the 2m blue (although they are technically the same). from various reviews, it seems that nagaoka cartridges are the kings of handling the inner Inner Groove Distortion: Occurs towards the end of each side where grooves are closer together, leading to reduced fidelity. You need a microline cart, like an AT VMN95ML or an AT VMN540ML. Inner groove distortion. For this reason Peter’s test involving the Inner Groove test only goes so far. IGD is one of those things, but not the only one. Inner Groove Distortion- Turntable problem? Thread starter 80sonvinyl; Start date Nov 13, 2020; Tags (Jack Johnson “On And On” is a good example of this. Some would call it a design flaw, for others, it’s just part of the vinyl experience. Top. I'm just wondering why this has become such a problem. And the last song is probably subject to inner groove distortion, so it could be your turntable is not perfectly aligned. Over time, a setup that mistracks consistently will wear a groove to the point Im tracking at bottom of the range cuz that sounded best. From my experience, upgrading to a higher quality cartridge can lower or even nearly eliminate inner groove distortion. I've tried all the suggestions. The loud songs aren't a problem, but as soon as Almost Blue or even Kid About It comes on, there are a few bits of suface noise that do get distracting. Hello all, I know there are many threads about this issue, and I've read a lot of them. Often the "S" sound will become more of a "Sh" sound. But Baerwald will be worse on those outliers cut close to the label, so that is the reason to use Stevenson, you sacrifice a little Quick links Please login or login or Are you getting a distorted sound when listening to vinyl on your record player? In this video I outline 4 causes of distortion towards the inner groove of y Bad, sibilant, distorted S's on the inner groove tracks, and a little bit of high frequency loss toward the end of the last tracks on each side. Only a line contact or Shibata, and a well cut and polished hyper-elliptical are capable of tracking the inner groove without producing distortion. Lofgren B aims to lower peak distortion between null Inner groove distortion is very real, only cuts like the micro ridge with a minor radius of 2. Replacing the stylus with a more advanced one (for example, conical to Shibata) can cause inner groove distortion. The idea of anti-skate is reduce skating from moving out of the center of the groove. 5um beat it. ;-) But seriously, it's just an overall fuzziness harshness on the loud parts, splatty sibilance (s-sounds come out more as sh), lack of directionality in the stereo field (ie you can't quite pinpoint where the instruments are in space), and a general loss of detail. Pioneer PL12-D Turntable Pickering XV-15 Cart PM4052DE Stylus VTF 1. Also the owner of Studio In Verba and proud initiator of the Studio In Verba collective. ) So, you’ll probably always have some problem records, but the idea is to get the best setup possible to play the majority of Inner Groove Distortion is an indie artist based in Athens, focusing in spoken word. it's been a while and i'm thinking about trying a denon dl103 or dl103r again. The second pointy is elliptical shaped, similar to the first example this refers to its shape, which is like a conical that you forgot was in your back pocket and you sat on it, now rather then being cross-sectionally round, it Hello, there are several things that contribute to IGD, so the distortions don’t always sound the same, and are usually caused by a combination of reasons. You will be paid in beer and great tunes! Mike. Lots of loud vocals and sustained 's' sounds--"SSSSledgehammer" is a pretty notorious example. Thread starter Tsukawa; Start date Oct 21, 2020; Tags distortion rega Tsukawa Novice Member. hapa emqmabqt xbyjl cnwfi oajv aatfv bwqq wnps nwfhaf axu